Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

There is not one brand of engines made that do not break. All of them have some percentage that fail early, and I could easily relate numerous engine failures involving several high end popular engines. But I won't.

A fair number of new engine failures are user induced, some not. By "new" I refer to engines with less than 75-100 hours of run time. I just deliberately ruined an engine in about 30 hours of run time. Tuned perfectly, exellent oil and ratio, just run hot. I'll ruin another one in even less time by running hotter. Anyone out there is capable of doing the same thing accidentally. Many have done just that.

So if one does not have a clue about how to handle an engine, then perhaps paying double for "great service" is the way to go. If you anticipate ruining your engine and desire a safety net to cover you *****, then spend a lot more money. Or you can still be privided great service with a very good engine for a lot less money by purchasing from the right dealers. Both brand names would provide great service.

mpascual

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with you , but IMO also there is a problem with engines user manuals. Most of them are a simple paper not very useful, and does not instruct the final user on how to handle their new engine. Most of users do the same they have experienced with glow engines, and a gas engine is different.
A few manufacturers give with the engine the user manual with instructions on how to mount, linkage, tank installation, break-in procedure, propellers and rpm numbers, thrust , maintenance instructions, nuts and bolts torque values, fuel consumption numbers, baffling and cooling examples, filtering methods.......
The rest, gives as user manual a simple piece of paper .... with only safety instructions (always the same) some numbers of engine specs, and little more.

Maybe with better user manuals, gas engines on newbies hands will last much more time, and with less troubles.

Regards

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I agree the manuals are lacking but the bottom line is experience. That takes work and effort.....and time. The engines seem simple but there's a lot to running them right and properly setting them up. It's hard to put experience in the manual. Tuning should be better explained in the manual. I don't think it's that hard. Just saying where the needles are located, and the low is for low RPMs, the high is for high RPM's, is not enough (they overlap !!). Explaining baffling is a harder thing to explain. RC Showcase used to include a write-up about baffling by Dick Hanson with their manuals. I still have that. It's a bit hard for a newbee to understand how air flows inside a cowling. Not that intuitive. Understanding how to make louvers to suck hot air out of a cowling, not for a newbee. PE Reivers has how many years with engines? I think he's one of the few experts of baffling. Dick Hanson is obviously another. Then there's going from singles, to twins, to quads. Totally different animals.

Whistling Death

I may put this in my sig.
As far as I know the DLE engines come with a 2 year warranty. If said engine is bought at a dependable dealer you get just as good of service as DA but at half price but with steel bolts and a muffler.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Some good points were brought up in theprevious posts. Instructions and baffling. Few manufacturers provide a relatively good manual, 3w being one of them. 3W is another that makes note of baffling, though providing suitable balle instructions for every plane an engine could be used in is impossible.

Manuals themselves are a much simpler problem to resolve. It only requires the desire to do something about it. The Chinese manuals are deplorable. What information is provided is done with language so dessimated by a computerized translator as to be unusable and providing little sensible information. Many of the other manuals fall woefuly short with providing essential information at even the most basic levels.

The only problem I have been able to discern with producing a good manual is the additional expenditures involved in making one. There have been offers to write manuals but the moment a fee is mentioned all further communications stop. This is an area where R/C blogs hurt the end user since it appears engine makers might think the problem takes care of itself through user communications on public forums. Not so, since so many that provide operational input pass on "word of mouth" dialog that was wrong when they first heard it, and it does not improve with each telling. Some manufacturers even manage to provide information detrimental to engine operations.

So the continuation of error prone instructions is frequenty promoted by those ignorant of factual data. This can be easily seen in any of the small gas engine threads. The new users have a thirst for knowledge but often heed people that know as little as themselves. Most gas engines work similarly and share many common operational practices, so finding information that works for one engine carries over into most all of our engines. One only needs to know who has the knowledge and experience that bears reading, and how to ignore threads with "folklore" information.

mpascual

My Feedback: (1)

Zenoah Titan supplied by Toni Clark and 3w engines have the best user manual i've read , and also translated, with a lot of useful information and also well explained.

Regards

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Who needs instructions? we never read them anyway.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Valid point.......

cuwaert

I have a DL50 for 2 years now and has run ca 70 hours without any single issue to report. The only thing I don't like about it's descendants is that they are 55cc's now for the one and only reason that the Belgian government is planning to impose a kind of " certification" for engines over 52cc, knowing the Belgian government it will probably be just a money fee in turn for nothing as it allready is for mancarrying planes.

So who knows I will have to spent lots of money on a DA50 in the future, or a ZDZ or something so please Chinese return to 50cc just for the Belgians.

hanko

between my son and I we have 9 DLE engines, I personally have 2 DA 50's. I honestly dont see any performance differences. The DA is a better looking engine, but my wifes good looking too, but a pain in the arse

Timber29

My Feedback: (1)

lmao yup

karolh

Oh boy, you certainly know how to take chances with your life. You better pray hard that she never visits this forum. Now if you had a Jamaican wife you would never make that mistake.

Karol

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

hehehehehehe that compare was good!!!

Lumpy n bumpy

WOW ! Thanks everyone for your input and opinions. As we know, opinions are like belly-buttons... Everybody has one

All the information helps and as we all know, if it's on the internet, it MUST be true [sm=72_72.gif]

Thanks again and keep the dialoge coming !

frank99

My Feedback: (29)

got a aero works carbon cub going with the da -120 , have unllimited money and i am smart, yea right, poor and broke, thanks frank

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Ralph, are you still able to buy DLEs from a Chinese wholesaler, or has that pipeline dried up? I wouldn't mind buying more engines than I need...

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Nope, someone{?} told the DLE factory they didn't want their very good markup apple cart UPSET by some lowly resellers [:@]
Only good new engine deals I can get now come from a few good friends in the hobby shop busines...Horizon cut me off years ago, same thing...I work out of my garage, no store front hobby shop....I defy anyone to PROVE how my service, knowledge, and warranty is not as good as theirs..ANYONE ?
FAT CHANCE [&o]
Can't retire now, my 1912 Model T needs parts...You think model airplane stuff is expensive ?
A new crank for a T is about $1200

Kelly Models

My Feedback: (1)

I've had several DLE engines. A few 55's and a 111 in my 35% Carden Cap. Both have had connecting rod bearing failure. The latest was in the 111. It's been running on Red Line oil 40:1 for two years and was running strong with a 27B Vess prop. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem. I'm hesitant to rebuild it if it's only going to fail again. Valley View RC has told me my engine is one of the early versions and some parts have been changed.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

I can't speak for other people's engines but my (3) DLE engines are so far as reliable as any engines I have owned. They may fail tomorrow and I certainly can't predict that! The DLE-55 compared to my DA-50, with about the same amount of run time, my DA had been sent in once and they replaced the crank and bearings. So far my DLE 55 runs great and shows no signs of wear, fatigue or failure of any kind. Add to that it runs better than my DA ever did and frankly, I really enjoyed that DA until I got the DLE which has more power and smoother running characteristics throughout the whole throttle range.

Now as far as rebuild costs .... even if the DLE was crap, it is cheap to rebuild. If a guy gets just two strong seasons out of the engine and rebuilds it just because he thinks it needs it, it is still a cheaper powerplant to own and operate than the high priced engines. I'll keep mine until proven otherwise.

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

I have had similar experience with DLE / DL. I have not had one fail. Mine start easy and run great. This over a 5 or 6 year stretch.

captinjohn

You have a very good point about less expeniveparts.

RBean

I have four DLE 20s. Two went back under warranty. I'm not new to gas engines and used 30-1 mix, good quality 2 cycle oil. One I was running up on ground the it stopped and prop windmilling. The rod pin broke off the crank. The other started loosing power while flying. Put gear and flaps down and headed for a landing. Engine quit on short final. Landed ok. Engine had mechinical hard spot while turning over. This engine had about 20 hours of run time on it. I don't know what the problems was with this one, I just sent in back. Both were under warranty and replaced by Tower. Also had a problem with throttle plate screw coming loose. At least they have a two year warranty. What do you expect, they are light weight, high power and (relatively) cheap. Don't buy one and let it sit for two years before you use it.

As far as dead sticks, most are caused by installation or tuning problems, not mechinical failure.

Kelly Models

My Feedback: (1)

I took the DLE -111 to my local machine shop for new bearings and any other work it may need to extend it's life. After a brief discussion with Valley view RC, I realized the only difference between mine and the newer version is the rear crankshaft bearing and the size of the woodruff key. I guess some people had problems with them breaking. I've heard some good talk about Frank Bowman rings, so once I get it back from the machine shop, I will order the rest of the parts. Then it's back to breaking it in again next summer.

john josey

If it's the same as here in the UK it has nothing to do with your sevice, knowledge or warranty. You are seen as having an unfair advantage in pricing and profit as you dont have the same overheads as a retail outlet.

cheers
john

warhawk1174

dle and da engines are made in the same factory in china so that says alot